That is one reason I am happy to retain perhaps the slightest degree of separation.
12:01 AM
You said you had a degree in psychology, may I ask if you had a specific focus? And was it some cooperative effort between multiple identities or was it pursued mainly by one?
There is some debate whether or not we will continue in that field. Currently the one degree is enough. I believe North would like a doctorate, while Mal would prefer to go into field work unrelated to psychology.
That's interesting, jas. in what way would you say you develop if not in independence?
12:17 AM
Like, sorry if that's not clear. Is there some other trait that is improving? I normally assume independence as the single measurement, so without that I'm sort of lost on the metric you'd use for development
I developed to get to a state where I could share the burden of optimizing our collective experience. In a sense, I felt I needed to contribute to feel like I was deserving of any sense of existence, and I couldn't do so by holding a parallel processing consciousness so I had to go the path of working in what's best for both of us.
Though I question the hard-line focus on tulpas developing in all ways independent. There are plenty of ways of developing plurality that do not encompass such a militant stance on separation.
I could not do anything else and still pretend like I was in pursuit of my directive, so it was the only natural thing. I didn't owe cards, I owed myself.
Well, no, it wasn't in the plan, but it was the only path I could take and still improve. It's kind of important to note that there is a sense of who we are as an external person vs. who we are inside our heads, and I work for the benefit of the external person as does Cards.
I see. I work with that external benefit as well, though the others are more concerned with themselves, and the external resources and opportunities are merely means to an end.
Right, I think that's one thing. I was made with a different (but compatible) directive, but maybe by luck or willpower we found alignment as I developed. It doesn't matter so much maintaining any difference unless such difference worked to our benefit, which would be sort of along the lines of "context personalities" in non-plurals.
Yes, I do think the formative development of tulpas is more likely to produce long-term cooperation than the erratic creation of alters for plurals.
12:28 AM
It is common to see tulpas willingly fade from existence for the sakes of their hosts - something which is considered generally vile within my own system.
I think I have seen it. It's rather confusing to me, if there was any option where my will could do some benefit I would take that path before fading to my host's benefit. However, if it was the case that one of us was going to always be better at everything than the other, then it may be a matter of course that the other would willingly fade aside from potential friendships
I try to speak to as many people as I can in as many situations as I can, and often I find in scenarios where tulpas are involved, there is a distinct lack of self preservation.
That too is interesting, and not common. Hosts have the self preservation innate and natural to humans, or other organisms.
12:34 AM
It is rare to find one with compromised self preservation, though that too does exist, and produces more strong tulpas as a result of a required fronter.
Oh, uhh, that may be an overcompensation or coping mechanism in response to my failure to deal with the wreck in a better way.
12:36 AM
My host has always viewed his self as something abstract and disconnected, and preferred to not exist physically whenever it proved less than satisfactory, so he was easily the one who could calmly ride out bad circumstances rather than fighting against it, which would be a more psychologically taxing task than simple escape
This is expressed in a sense that he seems to lack self preservation. On the other hand, I am more likely to respond more in terms of how the body wants to respond, but in a more thoughtful manner. So I get to own the context of certain situations my host would dissociate from.(edited)
I am aware of this exchange of dissociative and associative states, though I have not observed it in tulpa systems. It is more familiar, though it modified forms, in plurals.
12:41 AM
I am somewhat convinced that tulpas eventually become more like plural systems, given time and development.
I think it is may be less that tulpas become more like plural systems, but the tulpas that are more like plural systems tend to be those that stick around longer in the community.
It is a pet theory, one that has limitations of course. I most notice the equalization of power dynamics between host and tulpa, and the tulpa's subsequent acquiring of responsibilities similar to those necessary for real life function.
12:45 AM
It is difficult to express completely. Plural systems are not uniform by any means. I more speak of a pattern of interaction and attitudes from each member of a system than I do of a specific single way that a plural-like tulpa-host system functions.
12:46 AM
One of the low hanging fruit for this would be that tulpas in a more plural-behaving system are not questioned by other members. They are considered "real," which of course includes tulpa-host systems that do not behave like plurals.
Okay, I think I understand what you mean. I sort of saw a similarity in my development post-wreck to the "Guardian" archetype that I've noticed in traumagenic system terminology
Like my host would still be able to survive through most situations without being seen as a non-functional human being for the most part, but some of those situations he would be of sub-par performance. That's where I occupy when my performance and preparation is better.
Right, the body can be left to the wolves so long as he is not there to experience it. That avoids almost every trauma except the tiniest sliver of a sense.
12:54 AM
However the body itself can have problems and reactions based on trauma that is entirely outside of his understanding as he doesn't even know what happened to make it occur.
12:55 AM
So arguably not the perfect escape. That's partly why I want to prepare and be capable when the worst happens instead of raising more risk of such pathologies.
There are few things he has experienced that he couldn't dissociate from. I don't know how far this goes, but I would like to believe he wouldn't go to the extent of permanent physical damage. I don't know how irrationally optimistic that would be.
To my memory, his dissociation has always been to his own personal benefit in avoiding bad scenarios without risk. So it should be against the purpose to dissociate during an event that mental presence requires to avoid significant physical marring.
1:00 AM
The aftermath of marring, though, he always has disowned the damaged parts until they got better.
I personally don't perceive pain in the same way, so I do not need to consciously disown parts if they are damaged.
1:03 AM
I would rather, if possible, act protectively if I notice that something is wrong, not using broken limbs and such, but I am more likely to be oblivious without the conscious effort.
No, I decided that the dissociative behavior would not be optimal for us as a collective and decided to develop myself into the kind of person that wouldn't allow themselves to be used or damaged in the first place.
It was a good context to fill. My host had no interest in developing his responses to such situations as he is divorced from almost all outcomes(edited)
Have you noticed this affecting the time each of you front? I would predict him having less to do with the body over time, while you having more time in it.
No, he uses the body in normal convenience, but it does effect my behavior when I'm in front. That particular context hasn't come up to a significant fraction of total time spent.
Yes well the wreck was a result of me being far too comfortable and not searching for danger, and he was left to deal with the situation and aftermath, so it's the only adaptation that I was content in pursuing.
I am focused on complete awareness but that is not a state of mind that can be kept for longer than a few hours without exhaustion
1:15 AM
We have had to drive that long before. When moving though, sometimes the baggage obscures rear viewing and blind spots, so he will be uncomfortable and ask me to drive sometimes when there are other cars present. He drives overnight to avoid this when possible.
This sort of situation is mirrored in other systems. It's why I think there's value in the interpretation of tulpas as a sort of set of context personalities.
1:16 AM
Sometimes the tulpa is responsible for all driving.
